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Spain, civil unrest.

By whitstabletangerine in

General Chat


1 year ago
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By whitstabletangerine 1 year ago
So Catalonia seeks to gain independence from the mother land and calls for a referendum, completely rejected by the Spanish government in Madrid.



Civil unrest, not a civil war as seen in the thirties but interestingly the Catalonia region was the last to fall to the fascists under Franco, but could that be just coincidence.



I can understand Spain not wanting to see Catalonia breaking away, in the same way we perhaps see Scotland leaving the UK, Spain would be weaker economically without the North East region and I feel much the same if Scotland decided to go it's own way.



Ok, we may joke about the Scots but I do believe there is strength in numbers and we would be weaker without them.



There is so much shit in the world today and some pretty poor leaders to boot in various continents that a problem so close to home in Europe is certainly not welcome, I just hope it can be resolved without blood shed.



I had a conversation with the hotel manager where we stayed last weekend in Catalonia and he was adamant that a good number of Catalans were not looking for cessation and believed that being part of Spain was far better in the long run.



George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia, about his experiences during the three year civil war is an interesting read, in the meantime let us hope for a peaceful end to all of this, as I said there is far too many incidents taking place in the world today without any more stoking the fire.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By daib0 1 year ago
My saddest day ever, living in Spain. Here's a quick general explanation from my part.



Catalunya has 16.7% of the total Spanish population - and several million more than Scotland - big, but of course it will never ever have a majority of the MPs on Spanish soil. But Madrid says this independence vote is against the law. It has to be done from Madrid. Up to here good. But where it goes off-course is that any change has to be voted for by ALL Spanish people and not just those from Catalonia. Impossible to go ahead then. Why? Because although Catalunya has 16.7% of the population it produces OVER one-quarter of the wealth of Spain. Politicians and people of other regions are only interested in the economy, we all know that, so they'll NEVER allow a vote like Scotland.



What has really inspired this recent uprising in nationalism is that the Catalans voted for an amplification of autonomy status - and perfectly legally, approved by Madrid! - in 2010. It was widely approved by the regional population. But the PP (right-wing) party got worried that they might now get too much regional power, and went to the high Constitutional Court to get it overturned. And did so. Because the Spanish jurisdiction is very much politically influenced. THAT is what really started to fuel the big independence drive - people thought "if we get no respect for our views and legally binding vote, we might as well go it alone".



Back 10-15 years ago you'd find independence sentiments at about 17-20%. Now it's somewhere between 42 and 58%, depending on which parties they include in the equation. But it's growing VERY fast, 90% of youngsters voting first time want Catalonia as an independent country.



So Mr. Mariano Rajoy has one hell of a problem tonight. This is not going to go away ... far from it.



Scenes like this are truly shocking, towards pacific people - and there are DOZENS of videos now coming out of this type:



https://twitter.com/RitaBosaho/status/914489304130424832



https://twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/914442627910705152



Makes me ASHAMED to have gained dual nationality :cry:



David
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By Leesthedaddy 1 year ago
As always, a very well worded post from you Whits.

I've watched many videos on social media since I woke up of all the goings on in Spain today.

It's a sad situation & a prehistoric attitude towards the people & I also agree with your comparison to Scotland.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By whitstabletangerine 1 year ago
David thanks for the explanation, I can well imagine it would be a day that you would rather not have witnessed.



I have no idea the consequences if Catalonia actually gained independence although can't see it happening in the short term but how would it continue to export within Europe because as I understand it the region is responsible for a large percentage of Spain's exports and presumably detached from Madrid would also mean being detached from the EU.



Lee, it certainly is a sad situation, I would have thought the best bet for the Spanish government would have been to let them have the referendum, then taken it from there.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By foggy 1 year ago
Thanks for the explainer daib0
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By Magic147 1 year ago
Firemen form a human shield to protect voters from riot police in Catalunya.



RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By daib0 1 year ago
looks like the two leaders of the Catalan regional government are opening up the doors to a possible declaration of outright independence second half of this coming week. The fact that they are not allowed to have a nationally agreed referendum makes them want to use this one, with all its shortcomings, as definitive.



It's not a case of Catalonia being rich and not wanting to help the poorer off regions, this has all to do with Madrid being the big boss and not listening to the Catalan voice during many a year. It's against the capital, but not against any Spanish region as such.



The Basque push has diminished somewhat but there is still a sizeable chunk of the population who are for the cause still which could/might easily reignite if they see a free and successful Catalonia. In fact, I live on the edge of the Basque region, in Navarre ... 
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By Bally 1 year ago
The police are behaving like thugs



https://twitter.com/hashtag/CatalanReferendum?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fs9e.github.io%2Fiframe%2Ftwitter.min.html%23914470584498757632



Sending the police in mob handed with the instructions to stop the voting taking place has caused more injuries to the Spanish public than the Barcelona bombing.

Luckily there have been no reported deaths as yet.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By seasider 1 year ago
Total votes: 2,262,424

Yes: 2,020,140

No: 176,565

Blank: 45,586

Null: 20,129



Shocking video on that tweet; Police hitting Firemen.



https://twitter.com/tinabobuk/status/914744076385357824
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By daib0 1 year ago
before this weekend the independence feel was like Scotland, about 47 to 53%. After these barbarous images it's probably gone up 15%, and the international press have clearly seen what's gone on.



In a new video one can see a couple of policeman deliberately breaking a lady's fingers, then knock her half way down the stairs where they fondle her breats, laughing at each other ... and I thought Stevenage FC was bad enough
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By whitstabletangerine 1 year ago
Franco's ghost still around.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By Bally 1 year ago
daib0 wrote:





In a new video one can see a couple of policeman deliberately breaking a lady's fingers, then knock her half way down the stairs where they fondle her breats, laughing at each other ... and I thought Stevenage FC was bad enough





Police behaving much like they do on Preston New Road.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By AylesburyDave 1 year ago
I got the feeling that had the Spanish government organised a proper referendum that the result of the vote would have been against independence, but after what went on I am sure many more people will have been persuaded that they would be better off getting shot of the government in Madrid.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By GynnSquarePhoenix 1 year ago
I heard the fingers breaking statement from the woman...what the fuck is wrong with people "they just looked me in the face and broke them one by one as I screamed". I have to stop looking at news. It does me no good to be informed these days.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By McPoolmob 1 year ago
If as is reported Catalonia contributes to 40% of Spain's wealth then they won't be granted independence anytime soon.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By McPoolmob 1 year ago
GynnSquarePhoenix wrote:

I heard the fingers breaking statement from the woman...what the fuck is wrong with people "they just looked me in the face and broke them one by one as I screamed". I have to stop looking at news. It does me no good to be informed these days.



BREAKING NEWS; Jackbooted Fascist Spanish Regime Set To Be Booted Out Of Failed EU For Violating EU Laws On Domestic Violence +++ MORE SOON https://t.co/l8NdNf2lVJ
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By Bally 1 year ago
McPoolmob wrote:

BREAKING NEWS; Jackbooted Fascist Spanish Regime Set To Be Booted Out Of Failed EU For Violating EU Laws On Domestic Violence +++ MORE SOON https://t.co/l8NdNf2lVJ





What a load of bollocks. Fucking dream on
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By daib0 1 year ago
McPoolmob wrote:

If as is reported Catalonia contributes to 40% of Spain's wealth then they won't be granted independence anytime soon.





nah, it's about 25% but it's still hugely above many other regions.



Could you get this retrograde government out of power?



I'd say Rajoy really only rules with the centre-right party Ciudadanos, but it's a wafer thin number to do deals on. Strange that Ciudadanos (C's for short) put their reputation on being an anti-corruption party then team up with the most corrupt Spanish party of the whole recent democratic period in Spain. Yep, Spain is different!!!



Also, I have to say that I've always been pro-Europe EU ... up to now. But I am starting to re-evaluate. Now you see Poland getting its stick from the EU big-time for not taking enough refugees, but when the Catalans are really getting stick PHYSICALLY in the street as life-long CATALANS the EU seems to be doing nothing except turn a blind eye and say "be good boys". Worrying tendencies...
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By daib0 1 year ago
Excuse the what you might see as my obession on this. I've not got any magic wand on this, but am following things all day long. My wife Rosa is Catalan...
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By whitstabletangerine 1 year ago
Not at all, living there must cause you and your wife some concern.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By seasider 1 year ago
Pique booed at Spain's training camp



RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By McPoolmob 1 year ago
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By McPoolmob 1 year ago
I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:



Catalan vote illegal - Spain's King Felipe - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41493014



No shit Sherlock.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By Bally 1 year ago
I wonder how it will affect the price of a weeks 3* luxury self-catering in Benidorm when the kids are in school
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By daib0 1 year ago
McPoolmob wrote:

I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:



Catalan vote illegal - Spain's King Felipe - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41493014



No shit Sherlock.





the Spanish king has totally lost the plot ... a plonker
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By TheSuffolkSeasider 1 year ago
So, Spain are set to play Albania on Friday night. What scenes are to be expected there?! Especially if the Catalonians declare independence at the same time...which they've threatened too.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By daib0 1 year ago
TheSuffolkSeasider wrote:

So, Spain are set to play Albania on Friday night. What scenes are to be expected there?! Especially if the Catalonians declare independence at the same time...which they've threatened too.





very intimidating and threatening probably. Alicante is where the game will be; very south of Valencia, almost Murcia/Andalusia. Sure to be hugely 'patriotic' against those 'naughty boys' up north !!! :laugh:
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By whitstabletangerine 1 year ago
If they go for independence against the wishes of Madrid, they could be in for a hard time.



As I understand it the state owned company that runs the air traffic control services could bring the three airports in Catalonia to a halt, the Army could be deployed to keep the streets clear of civilians and the navy could blockade Barcelona's port.



David, I do not want to put a damper on things but I just can't see Madrid letting Catalonia go it alone without a fight.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By Magic147 1 year ago
They want to be careful or Trump will administer a dose of freedom.
RE: Spain, civil unrest.
By daib0 1 year ago
whitstabletangerine wrote:





David, I do not want to put a damper on things but I just can't see Madrid letting Catalonia go it alone without a fight.





Dead right; talk at lunchtime of the army going across to do a back-up.

But it's ludicrous because there's no violence, the Catalans are totally pacific. Gandhi would have been so proud.

That makes it even worse for Madrid; they've got no obvious reason to go in, other than purely political and administrational ...
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