‍Cabinet minister Chris Grayling has said there will be no deal with the EU on Brexit if it does not soften its position on the Irish border.

His comments come after EU leaders rejected Theresa May's Chequers plan at their Salzburg summit on Thursday.

EU chief Donald Tusk said a key part of that plan "will not work" but the prime minister said it was the only credible way to avoid a hard Irish border.

Mr Grayling told the BBC he was still confident a deal could be done.

He added that "tough language" was to be expected.

The UK is due to leave the EU on 29 March 2019.

Both sides are trying to reach a deal in time and want to avoid a hard border - meaning any physical infrastructure like cameras or guard posts - between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic but cannot agree on how.

I guess shit is about to get interesting now.

‍The Irish government along with Sinn Fein ultimately would like to see a United Ireland and erecting any form of barrier between the North and the Republic is a none starter, the EU will of course back it's member although barriers that have been erected in eastern EUROPE between Schengen treaty countries. The EU in the process of taking a tough course against the UK  over Ireland but allowing barriers and fences at borders on mainland Europe.

We could of course follow the Swiss example, join Schengen that would allow free movement of people across the border without the need for passports, be outside the customs union but participate in the single market by adopting some of the EU rules, just like we do at present and yet like Switzerland pay a fair bit less than we do at present to participate, the Swiss pay approximately one eight of our  current NET  contribution into the EU coffers.

whitstabletangerine wrote:

‍The Irish government along with Sinn Fein ultimately would like to see a United Ireland and erecting any form of barrier between the North and the Republic is a none starter, the EU will of course back it's member although barriers that have been erected in eastern EUROPE between Schengen treaty countries. The EU in the process of taking a tough course against the UK  over Ireland but allowing barriers and fences at borders on mainland Europe.

We could of course follow the Swiss example, join Schengen that would allow free movement of people across the border without the need for passports, be outside the customs union but participate in the single market by adopting some of the EU rules, just like we do at present and yet like Switzerland pay a fair bit less than we do at present to participate, the Swiss pay approximately one eight of our  current NET  contribution into the EU coffers.

‍Or we could just stay in the EU, enjoy all the powers that Brexiters wanted that we actually already had and carry on paying more money in knowing full well that in the long term it will pay dividends as the whole EU block is made stronger for doing it.

TheSteed wrote:

‍Or we could just stay in the EU, enjoy all the powers that Brexiters wanted that we actually already had and carry on paying more money in knowing full well that in the long term it will pay dividends as the whole EU block is made stronger for doing it.

‍Far too sensible.

‍I have read conflicting theories re staying in as we have triggered article 50 we may not be able to just carry on as before, there may be other issues such as the rebate we currently enjoy or adopting the euro currency.

If for example another referendum was called would the public be aware before voting of any new conditions or would there be a surprise package after the vote on staying in.

‍Theresa giving a speech now saying it is not acceptable for the EU to simply reject the UK's proposal without giving a reason or counter proposal. She says the UK has shown respect towards to the EU and the UK should expect the same in return.

Finished by saying if no deal, EU citizens will be protected and she will not break up the country.

whitstabletangerine wrote:

‍I have read conflicting theories re staying in as we have triggered article 50 we may not be able to just carry on as before, there may be other issues such as the rebate we currently enjoy or adopting the euro currency.

If for example another referendum was called would the public be aware before voting of any new conditions or would there be a surprise package after the vote on staying in.

‍Nope. The EU have basically said “call it off and we’ll say no more about it”.

Probably the best option...

‍Calling it off always seemed to be the best option. I can't see it happening. It feels like disaster investors are steering the ship with little credible opposition.

Incredible negotiating position by May to demand that the EU make a deal since we can't figure out how to. 

‍The EU will be laughing at that press conference. We are looking to the EU to help us get out of this mess but they will be thinking why should we. No deal looks on the cards.

‍we’ll be fighting for bread by Easter.

I am against Brexit, just stating that.
The sticking point seems to be the Irish border, the unionists who are propping up the government will not agree to an open border in Ireland. So basically 10 Irish MPs are preventing a negotiated Brexit, which if we must eave is probably the best way to do it.

‍Hard Brexit / No deal is the only thing left.


She had to make that speech today because the reality of the situation is she's in an impossible position. She can't agree to stay in the customs union, and she can't agree to separate NI from the UK. Why should she keep taking the flak and be portrayed as bumbling and clueless by the media, when it's obvious that no favourable settlement could ever be negotiated anyway. Hence why Cameron took off as soon as it was decided.


Her "chequers" plan was about as "soft-Brexit" as her party and the country would let her get away with, and it certainly doesn't leave room for negotiation. Though we've seen now that the chances of it being fully accepted by Tusk/Barnier/etc are absolutely none.


She had to put the onus back on the EU. That speech said "I've nowhere left to go with this. Realise that now and start a decent conversation, or lets stop wasting our time and get on with planning for a no-deal scenario".


Either way we're up shit creek without a paddle.

‍Sounds like you’re warming to her Bally.

‍Not at all. However  I do have a bit of sympathy for her over this fiasco.  It shows what a gang of shithouses she's involved with. As expected they've hung her out to dry.  I can just see the Bullingdon chums all having a jolly good hoot  at her attempts to rescue something from the electorates massive fuck up.

 She needs to resign.

‍A united Ireland would go along way in solving the border issue. What a mess.

‍Mr Tusk said: "While understanding the logic of the negotiations, I remain convinced that a compromise, good for all, is still possible. 

"I say these words as a close friend of the UK and a true admirer of PM May."

‍Therasa May the 'Dancing Queen'


‍I just hope we get the chance to stay in the EU. If we don't we really will be in the shit, mark my words.

Theresa will get a deal if she dances like that in Brussels.

‍god they’re fucking dorky aren’t they. 

those lot wouldn’t last five minutes on site!

Doing a stupid dance with this sorry state of affairs she's presiding over.
 
Jesus wept. What an awful attempt at distraction tactics from the speech itself.

Their entire conference showed just how defeated they are. Corbyn dictates the political narrative in this country now and they just can't compete, because finally Labour have a shadow cabinet and a leader that genuinely understand the working man and woman. They know what is happening to those on low and middle incomes, to public services, to the disabled/unemployed, the sick. They connect with normal people and the Tory conference made it crystal clear that they are incapable of doing the same. They are fucking floundering and it's glorious to see. Roll on the election

We I for one will be voting Tory after that dance. 

It was marvellous.

Finally a prime minister who understands dance lovers. 

Quite a funny gif

Bally wrote:

Doing a stupid dance with this sorry state of affairs she's presiding over.
 
Jesus wept. What an awful attempt at distraction tactics from the speech itself.

Their entire conference showed just how defeated they are. Corbyn dictates the political narrative in this country now and they just can't compete, because finally Labour have a shadow cabinet and a leader that genuinely understand the working man and woman. They know what is happening to those on low and middle incomes, to public services, to the disabled/unemployed, the sick. They connect with normal people and the Tory conference made it crystal clear that they are incapable of doing the same. They are fucking floundering and it's glorious to see. Roll on the election

Got to agree with Bally here. 

‍100% of newspapers and newscasts will lead with the dancing.  It's so easy to manipulate coverage these days. The more fucked-up your policies, the more outlandish the distractions get.

It only gets worse from here. Expect absolutely anything as deadlines approach.

GynnSquarePhoenix wrote:

‍100% of newspapers and newscasts will lead with the dancing.  It's so easy to manipulate coverage these days. The more fucked-up your policies, the more outlandish the distractions get.

It only gets worse from here. Expect absolutely anything as deadlines approach.

‍surely the general public can see what’s going on?

It’s not hard to read between the lines. 

The public are once again being duped by people who think they are a class above. Teresa May said yesterday that she's lifting the cap on the amount the council can borrow to spend on new social housing. If this was actually meaningful what she's saying is "we're still reducing the overall budget that councils are allocated each year (apart from middle class areas of course, we have to look after their mental health) and at the same time allowing them to get into even more debt trying to solve a problem they will never be able to. Smoke and mirrors. Surely the problem lies with the purchase of land to build these new houses on, which private developers snap up by paying much much more than the councils can. That's where government can make a difference, but they refuse to deal with real issues that effect real people. And, while I'm at it, I hate the way the Tories put in their manifesto that we must get the deficit down by the 2020's. That's just given them a license to oppress the poor. Smoke and mirrors.

‍Some intelligent input from Liam Gallagher on the matter.

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Emigration anyone?
I really believe that we need another referendum on leaving the EU. I believe that both sides did themselves no favours in the biggest bullshit campaign I have seen in my lifetime.
I prefer May to Corbyn.